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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7048
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Posted - 2014.11.06 18:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Get ready, it's gonna be a long bumpy ride filled with MATH
Last week I asked everyone how many skills they had at level 5 and slipped in how much SP I had to subconsciously encourage others to show how much SP they have as well. Some of you are rocking an admirable 70+ MILLION SP, which is an astonishing feat if I do say so myself (I'm rocking 50 million, after all). We got the 750,000 weekly cap and as excited as I am about that... there may be a potential problem with it.
With this new cap, assuming a player decided to rock out his boosters, we can take a look at these numbers:
Quote:One week stacked 50% boosters:
x3 50% boosters + Weekly Active CAP = 1,875,000
x3 50% boosters + Weekly Passive SP = 420,000
Weeks worth of Daily Login Bonus = 42,000
Grand Total: 2,337,000 SP/week
One week stacked 100% boosters:
x3 100% boosters + Weekly Active CAP = 3,000,000
x3 100% boosters + Weekly Passive SP = 672,000
Weeks worth of Daily Login Bonus = 42,000
Grand Total: 3,714,000 SP/week
Now, bear in mind, this doesn't include the Instant SP Boost that you're allowed after every match. You might be thinking, "So what? What does this matter and why is it a problem? THAT MUCH SP IS -AWESOME-!" And it is! But let's consider our edge-case veterans who -do- have 70,000,000 SP. Here's some more numbers:
Quote:All specialist suits 5:
---> 53,098,800
All Dropsuit Upgrades 5:
---> 22,075,320
All Infantry Weapons 5:
--->119,393,280
---> All infantry weapons 5 (no specialization skills like Rapid Reload/Sharpshooter): 17,100,600
Assuming that our veteran player doesn't go into the specialization skills for his weapons, and he has 70 million SP... He now has 22,247,720 SP left until he has literally unlocked and proto'd out every single infantry item in the game. No more suits, no more guns, no more modules/equipment; he's hit the end of the line as far as content goes. How fast can he make 22.25 million SP?
Quote:Well, assuming that he's got a lot of liquid income to throw out and has 100% boosters... He'll have unlocked everything there is for infantry on December 18th, 2014. How about something more realistic, like a 70 million SP veteran with 50% stacked boosters...? Try January 8th, 2015. Just nine weeks from today. But what if that same veteran player decided to max out everything in the weapons trees, essentially getting all Infantry skills to level 5? He'd hit that around June 25th, 2015. What about a new player who just started today, started buying 50% boosters, and wants to unlock all infantry skills (no spec skills)? With 0 SP -today- he'd reach that goal around August 10th, 2015.
Now, obviously not everyone has a stockpile of Omega boosters and not everyone is going to be shelling out the $30 a month to be able to run stacked boosters through and through but we do have those types of players and they have to be taken into consideration. For longevity purposes, I'm not entirely sure that this game can survive for more than a year with this sort of SP cap without players feeling like they can no longer progress. This doesn't take into account vehicles and turrets but even if you max out everything (including spec skills for turrets) there is for vehicles, that's an additional 62,424,920 SP (6 months).
Of course this is all just hypotheticals, I don't think Dust 514 has enough content to last more than another year unless we re-consider the 750k SP weekly cap, temporary as it may be... although the post level-5 content discussion now looks a hell of a lot more pertinent.
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7056
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Posted - 2014.11.06 18:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. You forgot the other racial vehicles yet to be added
1a. Also varients of the HAV and maybe LAV, what about the MAV?
1b. What about other turrets like lazers and artillery etc?
1c. What about modules that they can bring back or add more new
1d. Skills
1e. Pilot suits and modules
2. Nothing stopping them from adding more skills anyways
3. Its not that bad, this cap for the month is a one off so make the most of it because i doubt it will ever be so high since you can earn 12mil active in a month
4. I worry more about low payouts of ISK
I -SEVERELY- doubt that racial vehicles/MAVs/Lasers/Artillery will be added. It's already been stated several times that it's not likely to happen so...
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7060
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Posted - 2014.11.06 19:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:I thought Rattati already said that the 750k cap is only for this month, and that after the 4th or 5th of Dec the numbers will be reworked so that 750k is the MAX possible cap, after all boosters are applied? This multi-million SP thing is an error, but being allowed for the month so that Omega purchasers who've stacked already can get what they paid for?
Nah brosef, from the way it was worded, the 750k SP Cap could very likely become a thing after the 30 Day "trial" period. I made this thread to provide reasoning as to why I think it's a terrible idea, unless something changes and we get new content (unlikely) or Project Legion drops very soon (terrible idea).
CCP Rattati wrote:
Therefore, I propose that to keep faith to those that thought the intent was 750k multiplied by stacked boosters, to immediately raise it to 750k during downtime tomorrow. The potential SP gain will be enormous, but we can monitor the situation for a single month, just how fast players are capping and gaining SP and whether it is a real problem.
Those that bought and stacked 3 boosters today, will not lose anything and be able to do what was communicated, even though that was absolutely not our intent. If you have already capped out today, please take a break and start again after DT tomorrow.
However, we then reserve our right to reduce the Skill Cap after 30 days if deemed necessary, with a weeks notice or so, so players will understand fully how the Skill Cap will affect their purchasing decisions.
CCP Rattati
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Me and My Girl
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7065
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Posted - 2014.11.07 02:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. You forgot the other racial vehicles yet to be added
1a. Also varients of the HAV and maybe LAV, what about the MAV?
1b. What about other turrets like lazers and artillery etc?
1c. What about modules that they can bring back or add more new
1d. Skills
1e. Pilot suits and modules
2. Nothing stopping them from adding more skills anyways
3. Its not that bad, this cap for the month is a one off so make the most of it because i doubt it will ever be so high since you can earn 12mil active in a month
4. I worry more about low payouts of ISK I -SEVERELY- doubt that racial vehicles/MAVs/Lasers/Artillery will be added. It's already been stated several times that it's not likely to happen so... They said the same thing about updates for Dust but look what happened. 1.9 came along.
Right, but none of that is active development in the same sense. The maps/sockets were trickle down from Project Legion; probably was just optimized for the PS3 because - well, it existed at the time and we've been hearing about the Caldari Production Facility since this time last year.
The market agent as well seems, to me, to be a trickle down from Legion. Mostly because there was mention that there was supposed to be 10-15, using character assets from Eve Online, but they weren't compatible. Now, this is just my theory, but I can't understand why they'd have give us optimized trickle down maps from Legion and then on the other hand sit down and model out the market agent -solely- for the benefit of Dust 514.
The rest was just programming and UI for things we've been desperately needing (an NPC vendor, for instance).
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Me and My Girl
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7065
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Posted - 2014.11.07 02:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:You forgot to include how much cash they would have spent to achieve these goals.
If the game had been like this at launch I would agree, might have even said it was P2W, but that 0 sp newbro is only catching up to overcome the advantages the vets have in this game.
Since the change helps to eliminate one of the biggest barriers to entry for new players and at the same time pumps more cash to fund development, I support it.
Which is cool, I fully expect that you would. But, it's not about how much cash they have or how much it helps New Players vs Veterans... It's about burning through more SP then the game can feasibly offer in terms of sense of progression. After you unlock everything in the game you're literally down to just getting stuff like Ammo Capacity or Fitting Optimization for your weapons. That's not new content being unlocked, it's just tuning the dials on the stuff you already have.
Yes, it eliminates one of the biggest barriers for new players... But considering that it would take that same player just 9-10 months to reach that goal, my concern is that we're not going to be holding on to them for very long. Not every player is going to cap out everything; they might just cap out their playstyle (mine being Gal Assault) and then realize they can only move sideways from there - into other playstyles that they might not care for. How do we keep them interested after that..?
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7085
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Posted - 2014.11.08 00:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:firstly the WEEKLY BONUS DOES NOT MULTIPLY! only the SP you gain via Warpoints (before bonus weekly SP is applied) stop stirring the pot and put the tinfoil hat Down! ps. vets dont "need" the extra SP as much as newbros. getting a newbro up to speed takes like 3-5m sp just to be competent with standard gear and have some advanced items like weapons and some other moduals
Dude, it literally says 'x2.5' in your character screen and if you know even basic mathematics (we're talking pre-algebra here) you'd realize that 'x' + 50% is the same as 'x' * 1.5. That means, quite literally, that three 50% boosters is the same as 150% or a multiplicative of 2.5 and the in-game UI reflects this.
Thor Odinson42 wrote:el OPERATOR wrote:I thought Rattati already said that the 750k cap is only for this month, and that after the 4th or 5th of Dec the numbers will be reworked so that 750k is the MAX possible cap, after all boosters are applied? This multi-million SP thing is an error, but being allowed for the month so that Omega purchasers who've stacked already can get what they paid for? They need to get some kind of notification in game. I can hear the QQ now from people who don't check Dev posts on the forums.
Go read my response to him before you try to sound smart. Rattati did -NOT- say that the 750k cap was -ONLY- for this month, only that they were going to try it out for a month and data-check it to see if it's an actual problem which insinuates that there is a possibility - if not an outright plausibility - that it could continue. The entire point of this thread was give logic and reason why that would be a bad idea and I wouldn't have posted it up if I hadn't read what Rattati posted five times over for clarification.
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